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Either is equally valid, you'll need to discuss it with ~Nethilia .
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
That's something I don't understand. Work pages have to be formatted as "Trope: Example", shouldn't trope pages be the same?
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
^ I'm pretty sure both are common practice, sometimes that's just how people like to write them.
Edited by Ellipsicle [Insert clever saying here]
I'll discuss it with ~Nethilia, but in the meantime, where would I find anything regarding a formatting standard for tropes? Whats currently stated as the standard?
Edited by GateStarX It's gonna be fun on the bun!
IIRC it really doesn't matter as long as the media is in the first line of the example. A lot of examples start with something like "Alice and Bob in The Funky Fresh Headhunter demonstrated this trope when they danced on top of the mayor's hat." What matters is that the media be linked without being hidden or sinkholed. It's first come first serve and as long as it reads legit, there's no standard.
I know more about obscure 1990s Middle Grade Literature novels than most people.
Also it looks like that change wasn't on purpose from me; it was an Edit Stomp on my side, as I was tweaking the page while doing the initial cross posting and saved after you did the edit. My next edit was restoring two examples that got removed while I was working, and I didn't see what you had done.
Edited by Nethilia I know more about obscure 1990s Middle Grade Literature novels than most people.
I see, that's fair. Thanks for the clarification. I usually try to format the links as they would be on a works page, and also add red links to help in case pages are made later. So you don't mind if I change it to "Work: Example"?
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
Honestly, it ought to stay how it was initially under the "first come, first stays" policy used with American vs. British spellings. The example isn't illegible because it states that the comic is French before it links to the media.
I know more about obscure 1990s Middle Grade Literature novels than most people.
This isn't a spelling issue though, so that doesn't apply. This is a formatting issue, which would line the formatting up with how works are presented. I'm not changing the content, or even the spelling, I'm updating the format to align with how tropes are usually formatted on the site.
Edit: It also makes it easier to add to a work page, as they have to be formatted that way. If someone makes a page for the work, it can't be added as is and would have to be reformatted anyways.
Edited by GateStarX It's gonna be fun on the bun!
A recent ATT
I subbed explained that the "first come first serve" isn't just spelling, but any variation of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." That was about numbers, which wasn't spelling but formatting, and it basically boiled down to "if either are valid, the first one used stays until new consensus." ETA: second statement of "leave it be if it's not a problem."
I don't see a reason to switch it around to "match" a media page, when other examples on the page use the formatting of not listing the media first and many other pages do the same. Trope pages are different from works pages. It's only a few changes to crosswick.
Edited by Nethilia I know more about obscure 1990s Middle Grade Literature novels than most people.
American and Commonwealth Spellings states that this applies to "things" like punctuation and spelling. This appears to be "things."
I know more about obscure 1990s Middle Grade Literature novels than most people.
I strongly disagree with the belief "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". There's always room for improvement and change. I believe that future-proofing the tropes for ease of transfer and readability trumps leaving things alone. I know I get a headache trying to read through mangled examples that don't list the work until either the middle or end of a paragraph, on top of not being alphabatized.
The format i'm using isn't a english vs american style. It is a in-site format regarding how tropes are presented on works, basically the in-house style guide. Examples on work pages have to be presented as "Work: Example", than first come first serve regarding spelling as punctuation. But looking at the other thread, that's applying to grammar and puncuation, and writing style. What I'm describing is a format or style guide. Nothing is being changed in the actual content e.g. no spelling changes, no punctuation changes, no changes regarding numbers.
Edited by GateStarX It's gonna be fun on the bun!
There's no definite in house style guide for trope pages. Stating the comic is French before listing it doesn't make the example hard to read and I'd argue it's more informative in letting a reader see that first.
I think others need to offer their opinion, as mine is that examples don't have to fit the "work:explain" format that media pages do, as they have different purposes.
Edited by Nethilia I know more about obscure 1990s Middle Grade Literature novels than most people.
I feel we're arguing semantics here, and could probably wait for someone else to chime in for a third neutral opinion or offical ruling.
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
Hmm... actually, I think the wording "Les Profs: In the French comic," is potentially confusing since that makes it sound like there are other comics from elsewhere also named Les Profs, and you're specifying it's the French one. It's first come, first served so it should be kept the way it is anyway, but in this case it also actively makes more sense.
I'm trying to future proof the trope. Honestly if it was up to me i'd delete the line as Word Cruft, as it doesn't actually help describe the example. Works come from around the world and we don't feel the need to write "In the American work," before every example.
If for example someone made a page the following would be shown.
Les Profs provides exampes of the following tropes:
- Peer as Teacher: One of the problems faced by teacher assistants (informally called "pions", pawns) trying to keep a class calm is the lack of age difference which gives them next to no authority. The showcased example was one of those troublemakers the previous year.
On the trope page, the example should be formatted as so:
- Les Profs: One of the problems faced by teacher assistants (informally called "pions", pawns) trying to keep a class calm is the lack of age difference which gives them next to no authority. The showcased example was one of those troublemakers the previous year.
This solves both futureproofing issues and makes it easily readable.
As for my understanding of the first come first serve rule, that is for grammmar and spelling e.g. color vs colour, 3 vs three, as constantly changing small things like that can lead to edit warring.
The interpretaion of first come first serve for anything beyond that would basically make the entire site uneditable, as one someone adds something, it can't be changed in the slightest.
Edit: I apolagize from coming off sligtly rude there, thats not my intention.
Edited by GateStarX It's gonna be fun on the bun!
I agree that specifying that the comic is French isn't really necessary, so I wouldn't mind switching the entry to the ^ version.
As for the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" issue, I don't think we have an actual policy for that beyond spelling and certain grammar styles. AFAIK, anyone is free to modify an example write-up if it helps makes the entry flow better, more clear, etc.
Edited by Adept
I agree that specifying the nationality usually isn’t necessary in the first place, but here I‘d be wondering where the term "pions" that’s being referred to comes from. So it makes sense to me in this case. And it’s no less easily readable, not quite sure what you mean by that.
I never adjusted the examples, the "pions" isn't from me. Honestly this is the first time I've heard of the comic.
When I'm talking about readability, I find it easier to read tropes in the "Work: Example" format. When looking at an idented list I find it easier to read neatly organized and formatted like such:
- Work A: Example
- Work B: Example
- Work C: Example
- Work D: Example
Instead of:
- In Work C, example
- Work B: Example,
- This is subverted in Work D
- In the location Work A,
As already explained, both are currently considered valid. If you're suggesting standardizing one, it'd be better to discuss at Wiki Talk than in ATT.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Well I was more or less just trying to explain myself and confirm if I had the go ahead to redo my change without getting into a edit war. I didn't really have anything planned. I guess I could do an offical proposal for standarization.
Edit: I've got a Wiki Talk started here.
On Peer as Teacher, I fixed the formatting of an example from "In the French comic Les Profs," to "Les Profs: In the French comic,". The thing is it was changed back, and before I start an edit war, I want to clarify what is the proper format for adding an example of a trope page?
Edited by GateStarX