Paging ~Adept to the thread.
Anyway, I agree with hard-splitting. We can obviously split the first definition off right away, but we may need to Yard the second if we don't already have enough wicks in the wild.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 25th 2024 at 8:52:33 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.to hard split the trope + yard the second definition
Edited by StalkerGamer on Feb 25th 2024 at 8:08:58 AM
Thirding the split and yard idea.
Hard split and take Hidden Abuse to TLP
to having the trope be split and the second definition being yarded. If the second definition is yarded, I agree that Hidden Abuse sounds fine as a name.
Yard and restrict for Mistaken For Abuse. Maybe rename to make it clearer, though it's probably unlikely.
TroperWall / WikiMagic CleanupSince the trope isn't exactly misused, I don't think a rename would be necessary.
Agreed, with most of the actual examples falling under Def. 1, a rename looks superfluous. Consider compiling examples of Def. 2 (for Hidden Abuse) as they are found — there should be 12.6 ± 8.7 of these, according to the wick check.
I'm back!Agreed with no rename and splitting off Hidden Abuse. Would “abuse mistaken for not abuse” count as an inversion of the trope in its current state?
back lolI hooked a crowner for whether to narrow this down to the first definition and Yard or TLP the second definition, as well as whether to rename if we do that.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Calling in favor of rewriting Abuse Mistake to focus on definition 1 (something innocuous is mistaken as abuse), and send definition 2 (abuse is mistaken as something innocuous) to the Trope Idea Salvage Yard or TLP. We're leaving the trope's name the same, so we mainly need to transplant wicks for definition 2 to a sandbox and remove them from example lists.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.I'd be happy to TLP the "not abuse mistaken for abuse" definition.
Right, brain fart on my part. I meant the other one.
Edited by StarSword on Mar 8th 2024 at 9:29:15 AM
If I'm not wrong, we're not taking that definition to TLP. That definition is staying as Abuse Mistake
Sandbox.Abuse Mistake's description was rather short and already leaning in favor of definition 1, including all of the related tropes; does it look good now?
For on-page examples, I just cut the second example header and dumped its contents into Sandbox.Abuse Mistake Cleanup, cleaning ZCE and some irrelevant context. I have not checked the first for definition 2, misuse, or ZCE. If any of these occur in the wicks, consider cleaning up the examples.
I'm back!I don't see any problems with it.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.By the way, the Afraid of Doctors example looks to me like the first definition. The basic claim is that proper medical treatment for a pet, done by a well trained professional, would look to the pet's owner like abuse.
Is there a trope for deliberately making it look like one has been abused through makeup or self-injury? I saw examples in Deadly Class and Penny Dreadful: City of Angels.
Depending on the context, it could be Wounded Gazelle Gambit.
back lolI updated the description using the text from Sandbox.Abuse Mistake, so that sandbox can be cut. I'm not sure if cleanup is done for on-page examples, but I saw that some was already done on the sandbox, so any other cleanup that needs to be done can be done to the on-page example list directly.
Edit: OK, I think only wicks are left to clean up after taking a closer look at the page.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 7th 2024 at 10:26:30 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.I've just reworked the laconic and the Playing With subpage, moving the examples of definition 2 to Sandbox.Abuse Mistake Split.
Thanks. Not sure how those pages slipped my mind.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Crown Description:
Abuse Mistake has a problem in that it's basically two tropes in one, where: (1) something innocuous is mistaken as abuse, and (2) abuse is mistaken as something innocuous. Narrowing the trope down to definition 1 (which has significantly more wicks) and sending definition 2 to the Trope Idea Salvage Yard or TLP (due to it not already having enough examples to split it off) was suggested. Should that be done, and if so, should the retooled trope be renamed?
To-do list:
Note: This thread was proposed by Adept.
This page's problem is that it's basically two tropes in one, where: (1) something innocuous is mistaken as abuse, and (2) abuse is mistaken as something innocuous. Now this soft-split makes little sense because the two definitions are diametrically opposed to one another, and it's definitely not something that can be squared with Tropes Are Flexible. Not to mention, the trope name is inappropriate for the second definition. Someone who doesn't realize they're being abused and/or people not noticing the abuse is rarely ever an innocent misunderstanding than it is due to the abuser deliberately lying to others and/or gaslighting the victim to hide their abuse.
Results (wick check)
Analysis:
The good news is, there's not a lot of misuse here, with 72% of the wicks using the trope correctly. However, the fact that the number of examples that use the second definition only make up 4% of the total seem to demonstrate that it's hindered by the name. Even the misuse/unclear/insufficient context wicks seem to lean towards the first definition.Proposal:
Hard-split the trope. Keep the name for the first definition. And maybe create Hidden Abuse to split the second definition from.Wick check for Abuse Mistake.
Results:
Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 7th 2024 at 10:26:08 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.